Baptists and Catholics: Visiting a Baptist Church

I took a visit to a Baptist Church in town. And I am from a Catholic background, so I was interested to see what differences there were between the two.

The traditional Catholic Mass is very structured. The mass is the celebration of the Eucharist, or communion, which is the celebration and remembrance of Jesus and of the Lord’s Last supper where he gave bread and wine to the disciples and told that it was his body and blood.

The Mass is very structured and has many parts. The part are separated into four categories: The Introductory Rite, The Liturgy of the Word, The Liturgy of the Eucharist, and The Concluding Rites. During The Introductory Rite, the priest greets the congregation and then as everyone participates in asking for God’s forgiveness. This is then followed by the Kyrie Eleison and the Gloria–Song’s claiming how glorious God and Jesus are–which are usually sung or chanted. There is then a short prayer called the Collect. The Liturgy of the Word consists of a reading from the Old Testament, a hymn, a reading from the New Testament, and then a reading from the gospel, which is then followed by a homily, where the priest essentially gives a speech, usually relating to the gospel reading. There is then a reading of a creed, usually the Apostle’s creed followed by prayer of the faithful, during which there are intentions for members of the local, national, and global community. The Liturgy of the Eucharist has many parts, but the most important part is the Eucharistic Prayer, where the bread and wine are consecrated as the body and blood of Christ. This is followed by a reciting of the Lord’s Prayer (The “Our Father”) and then the communion be given out to everyone in the congregation. The concluding Rite is essentially the time when members of the church can share about events happening happening in the community. The priest then blesses the congregation one last time and the priest then leaves while a hymn is played and everyone then departs. The Concluding Rite is very brief. Essentially, the whole mass leads up to the point of the transubstantiation, which is the central focus of each mass, as it is the sacrament of communion.

The Fox River Baptist Church in Appleton, Wisconsin

The day I visited the church, it was not a service during which they take part in the ordinance of The Lord’s Supper. The main focus of the service seemed to be the sermon given by the Pastor. During the sermon there were many references to the scripture, specifically the Gospels, and this particular church had a projector projecting the referenced readings behind the pastor as he talked. The sermon took up about 45 minutes of the hour and a half service, so it seems clear that it is an important part of the service. Another interesting aspect of this sermon, was that whenever the pastor made a strong point about the faith people are welcome to say “amen” out loud during the sermon.

During the first half of the service there was firstly a greeting from a community member and events happening in the community were announced at this time. Then all members of the congregation were allowed to greet each other for a few minutes. I was fairly nervous at this point, but everyone was being very welcoming and I met a lot of the members of the church. There were many songs sung and one reading from the book of Psalms before the Sermon started. Certainly there is less structure to the Baptist service than a Catholic one, and fewer symbolic actions and repeated phrases than a Catholic mass.

It is interesting to see how two different branches of Christianity have the same, yet different beliefs. Their beliefs are essentially the same, though they the differ in key areas such as baptism and the communion. It seems that they are both just two different paths to the same goal, and for these faiths, that goal is life with God.

Thanks to the Fox Valley Baptist Church for being so welcoming!

Baptists and Catholics: Creed

The Nicene Creed

Some Christian Faiths do not have a creed, like quakers and UUs. Though the Baptists might believe in some of the substance that is in a Creed like the Nicene Creed. The purpose of not having a creed is to not have a defined way of faith that is the same for everyone. Since the Baptist beliefs are based on the ideas of religious freedom from Roger Williams, it makes sense that the faith itself lets its followers guide their own. However they do believe the ideas expressed in the major Christian creeds, the Nicene Creed and the Apostle’s creed, but as a symbol of religious freedom, there is a lack of reciting creeds in the Baptist tradition.

Catholics closely follow creeds as is directed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is the official text containing the teachings that the Catholic Church follows. The CCC includes the profession of faith, the Celebration of the sacraments, Life Christ (like following the Commandments), and Christian prayer, like the Lord’s Prayer.

Apostle’s Creed:

I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.

He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.

He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again.

He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,

the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints,

the forgiveness of sins,

the resurrection of the body,

and life everlasting.

Amen.

Baptists and Catholics: Evangelism

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Sharing information about a certain faith with those who do not have the same beliefs. “Spreading the word of God” is an important part of the Baptist faith. The ABCUSA website states that Evangelism is: “Evangelism is a challenge and an opportunity. Even after 2,000 years of Christian ministry, tens of millions of persons throughout the world have not yet heard the Good News of salvation through Jesus Christ. The world is as much a mission field "ripe unto harvest" now as it was when Christ sent forth his earliest followers to reconcile a fallen creation to its Creator. Evangelism is the mission of sharing Christ and the truths He proclaimed with people who need to receive them.”

There is this idea that though most Americans are Christian, too many do not have a good basic understanding of Christian values and beliefs. And along with that, not enough of them are attending church every Sunday. Interestingly, there are evangelism workshops for Baptists training people in the art of winning over people towards Christ. Help people to learn how to talk about their faith. Sometimes media is used for evangelism, such as newspapers and advertisement. There are also evangelical efforts overseas with missionaries and volunteers.

Catholics do not support Evangelism as much as the Baptists, however it is a part of their religion. It is seen in some doctrine such as the Catholic Church Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which says Evangelism is "an inalienable right and duty, an expression of religious liberty ...”

Baptists and Catholics: Baptism

A key difference is their view on Baptism.

For Baptists, a person is baptized because they know they believe in Jesus Christ. An infant is not able to make a claim to faith or understand a faith entirely, and Baptists–and many other Protestants–see baptism as a public profession of faith. And this idea of Credobaptism as opposed to pedobaptism is major separating factor between the mainstream Christian and the Baptist. Baptism, for Baptists does not have a saving effect, unlike the idea in Catholicism that it wipes away the original sin. This idea of Baptism being for a public display of faith and not for salvation definitely separates itself from the tradition Christian view, and even farther back, it separates itself from the Old testament view seen in Judaism and more conservative Christian faiths where there must be baptism soon after birth so that salvation may occur. Often, Baptists will consider the infant baptism of someone who is converting to their faith to be without effect, and thus rebaptise them. Though they do not consider it a rebaptism because the infant baptism didn’t have an effect on them.

For Catholics, baptism is for the forgiveness of sins, referring to both personal sins and the stain of original sin. It is not often done with affusion, and when one is an infant. It is an essential sacrament, without it no other sacrament can be performed. It is essentially a gateway into the Church and being Catholic. Baptism is seen as a symbolic and literal death and rebirth. Catholics believe there is a true spiritual transformation happening during the baptism. For Baptists, it is seen as entirely symbolic, and for Catholics, it is seen as though the person is actually being reborn “with Christ.”

Baptists and Catholics: The Body of Christ

An interesting aspect of Baptists is seen in the lack of sacraments. If you type in the word sacraments on the search engine of the ABCUSA website, there are no results. What they do have that are the closest thing to sacraments are the two Ordinances: Believer’s Baptism and the Lord’s Supper. It is maintained that it is the faith of the individual that saves and supplies God’s grace and not the going through of the sacraments that supplies God’s grace to people.

The Lord’s Supper for Baptist and the Eucharist for Catholics are similar. They both involve are sharing of bread and wine with all the people in the congregation. However, there are some key differences. Baptists do not believe that the bread and wine are the body of Christ but rather that it is a time to remember Christ’s atonement, and a time of renewal of personal commitment. For Catholics, they believe that the bread becomes the actual body of Christ and the Wine becomes the actual blood of Christ. This is called the transubstantiation, and it is a key element of the Catholic faith.

Another difference is that, for Catholics, the sacrament of communion is examined every Sunday, and for Baptists, the Lord’s Supper it is a monthly or quarterly occurrence. Also, sometimes in Baptist traditions, the wine (or often grape juice) and the bread are taken in unison among all members of the faith. Another interesting note, is that among many protest faiths, there are lots of different names for the same, or similar things, this is no mistake. As they are protestant, they want to separate themselves from the mainstream and even other protestant faiths. So that is why they call it the Lord’s Supper because the Catholics call it the Eucharist. The names in and of themselves are symbols.

Baptist and Catholics: History

I have composed a Project comparing Baptists and Catholics. These two faiths share common Christian Beliefs and values, though they differ in Key areas. Please Enjoy. Lets start with a history of the two.

Roger Williams founded the first Baptist church in Providence, Rhode Isalnd 1638. Williams was a protestant from England, and was a proponent of religious freedom and the separation of church and state. He argued that when church and state mix, it essentially becomes forced worship. By the nature of protestant movements, there were many Baptist churches that were operating independently, going in different directions. Also by the nature of the Baptist movement, there was not a central governing body, because, unlike Catholics, they do not follow papal authority. One of the earliest of the large Baptist conventions was the Triennial Convention formed in 1814. 1845, Baptists from the south withdrew because the convention banned slave owners from becoming ordained missionaries and formed the Southern Baptist Convention.

The Northern Baptist convention was founded at Washington D.C. 1907. It was meant to bring a consistency among the separate Baptist groups all over the United States. The American Baptist Convention (as it was called from 1950-1972) was progressive for its time. involved in civil rights, progressive in its views of race relations. However they didn’t really give black members very much power, as was protested by black members in 1968. They were not allowed in decision making positions. Although their first black president of the convention was elected the next year.

Jesus handing to keys to heaven over to Saint Peter

The Catholic Church is the largest Christian group in the world with over 1.15 billion members. The Pope is the main authority. The Catholic traditions holds that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ during the 1^st century AD. The earliest members being the twelve disciples that Jesus had sent out to proclaim his teachings. There were a plethora of Christians at the time of the Roman empire who refused to join the pagan, rituals–and thus most public events. They were often harassed and persecuted. But a dramatic turn in Roman history occurred when Christianity was legalized in the 4^th century AD and in 380 Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire. Even after the fall of the Roman Empire, the Catholic Church still survived and spread all throughout Europe.

Throughout history they have been several schism as the church changed and society changed. The 11^th century schism between the West (Latin) and East (Greek) churches in Europe and the Protestant Reformation in the 16^th century are the two major schisms in history. Baptists originate from the soon after the protestant reformation when the separatists (from the Church of England) were migrating to North America claiming that the church was corrupt and misleading. Roger Williams is one of these separatists, who founded Baptists.

The Book of Abraham

The Book of Abraham is an interesting part of the Mormon doctrine. there is a lot of speculation about its validity. And rightfully so. There are definitely curious aspects in the writing of the book and curious aspects about the story of how it was written.

Many things are important in determining the validity of a text like this. Take look at the language. If there are many modern terms that would cause suspicion. Also, sometimes the writer might be trying to make it read as though it were old, and would over do it. Some instances of language that that are curious in the Book of Abraham are the use of the word "Heathen" (1:7) and the use of the phrase "and it came to pass..." (which is used 16 times). Another aspect to look at is ideas. If there are modern ideas, it is either way ahead of its time or this is a hint that the text is not as old as it is made out to be; or it is a hint the translation has been modified for some reason, such as to fit into certain ideas that the translator is bias towards. Something that sticks out is the nature of the eternal spirit discussed in chapter 3. God is telling Abraham that everyone is existent before their life on earth as a soul in a giant pool of souls. So, this gives the impression that each person is their spirit, which is controlling the body. This is an idea that is not explicitly addressed in the bible though it is the general feeling of Christians; it is a little more of a modern idea. Also, look at events or ideas in relation to time. If the story teller lives in a certain era, there should be no mention of technology or ideas that are unique to years after the story teller’s life. There is talk of astronomy in the book of Abraham, however this is accurate, because the Egyptians did observe the Moon, stars, and the sun.

Though some parts of the Book of Abraham might seem convincing, there are definitely aspects in the language, and historical-critical aspects that give the impression that this is is not in fact as old as it is supposed to be. It seems that possibly, Joseph Smith made this translation to fit his beliefs and the ideas that he wanted to portray to Mormons.